David Stevenson
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It is a fact that creates confusion that people do not always use names correctly, so communication gets difficult and that can lead to misinformation and rulings. Your (b), as Charles says is an unassuming cue bid. (a) is not but because of the similar purpose, to allow an actual raise to be more preemptive, some people but nowhere near all have started to call (a) an unassuming cue bid. My advice is that you play both (a) and (b) but only use the term unassuming cue bid to refer to (b).
I am not sure what the point of asking the point count of a preempt is but of course you can ask if you want to. It is considered general bridge knowledge that a preempt in third seat tends to have a wider range of strength than in other seats. The reason is that knowing Partner has not got an opening bid means that with 12 or 13 points you can be fairly sure that you are not missing a game by pre-empting and while LHO is not guaranteed to have strength if anybody does have a strong hand it will be him. The main point of a pre-empt is to create difficulties for opponents and hopefully not for your side.
Players on BBO are really quite lax about following the rules and what you mention here may be an infraction but it is the least important infraction of all. Every 1NT and two level opening requires an explanation so really whether they are alerted or not is not relevant. Since every single one requires an explanation if you think there has not been one you should ask. So if your partner had not noticed an explanation via chat he should be clicking on the bid to ask anyway and perhaps would get the answer ‘See chat’. An alternative way of looking at it is that he knows an explanation is coming so if a bid is not accompanied by an explanation I would have thought looking at his chat was the next obvious step.
They can always ask but the answer “We have no agreement” is reasonable. That is what I would tell you if you asked me. I play a preempt is less than opening bid in 1st and 2nd position but even this is a completely judgement decision what qualifies.
Point count is a excellent tool for balanced hands. The less balanced a hand is the less useful it is. To take an example, what would you open with the following ten point hands vulnerable?xx
AKQJTxx
xx
xx
—
AKx
Txxxxxx
Kx
x
—
I would be choosing between 3H and 4H on the first hand, and between 1H and pass on the second hand. Yet both have ten points and a seven card suit.
But you must remember that none of this really makes the slightest difference to the problem outlined in the start of this thread. It is extremely rare that knowing an opponent’s point count for opening at the 3-level makes any difference to your side. In the example given an opponent opened 3S and he missed a game. If he was told it could have been 12 points that would have made no difference whatever. The point is that it is not illegal to open 3S on 12 points and, like any other strange bids that you would not make yourself, it will gain sometimes and it will lose sometimes. That’s the nature of bridge.
There is no rule that says a player must follow his agreements. If a player decides to preempt on 12 points when his agreement is (say) 5 to 10 there is nothing illegal because his partner is expecting 5 to 10. It is only illegal if his partner is expecting 9 to 13 but they tell you 5 to 10.
However there is more to this particular story than the above. Because of rules that applied 20 years ago or more but have not applied since players tend to expect point ranges for weak twos even though many players really have no agreed range. But it is different at the three level where point ranges are not expected and if you ask a point range you will probably get a somewhat confused answer because the pair will never have discussed a point range.In this case I am sure you did not ask the point range. Perhaps if you had asked they would have said 2 to 13. More likely they would have said that they had never discussed it. What you have done is to apply your own standards as to what you expect. It is perfectly reasonable to open preempts on 12 or 13 points if a player feels that is best. This is complicated by the fact that a growing number of players below expert rank seem to have a fear of opening at the one level with seven card suits and that as a result when they have a seven card suit they feel they have a choice between opening at the three level or opening an Acol 2C or a Benjamin 2C or 2D bid. Experts will open such hands at the one level without any worries. As a result some players with seven cards suit will open a pre-empt even when stronger than normal. It is bad bridge but bad bridge is not illegal.
Unfortunately this software does not allow editing once posted. In my last post it says ‘sending-balanced’ which is autocorrect having fun again! It should read semi-balanced.
Balanced is the normal description of a 2NT opening and it is generally understood that a 2NT opening may contain a singleton and it is not something that needs disclosure. A 1NT opening is not comparable. Most people do not allow a singleton and if a pair do have an agreement that it could contain a singleton then that needs to be announced. It is certainly understood that 1NT and 2NT openings may be sending-balanced.
I don’t think that there is anything wrong with the link you have shown. A simple table like that is definitely intended to be simple, not detailed. If you want to see the details of alerting and announcing you look at the blue book not a simple chart.My experience of the most friendly clubs is not ones that just ignore the rules. Sure, if someone wants to ask their partner what 2H means then they should ask the opponents. To ask partner without permission is not really friendly. Of course they will never learn this way. Bridge is a game of mistakes and most players just bid and if things go wrong that’s life.
In a beginner or novice game it is different but most players in a friendly club would never ask their partner anyway.Tell them it was a matter of judgement if it happens again. If they suggest it is illegal quote me as saying it is not.
Well, it really depends on frequency. If you always with 15 points and 4333 open 1NT then yes, it might be a good idea. But if it is something that you might do but do not always do then I would not bother. Despite the fact that some people will complain no director will rule that opponents are damaged by a failure to disclose that you use judgement.
It is perfectly legal to use judgement to decide whether an actual hand is suitable for your agreements. Different players use point count in different ways for assessment. Some players always deduct one point for 4333 hands, and many players just consider the possibility. Similarly some players add one point for a good five card suit, or for having two or more tens. On the other hand some players just treat the point count as sacrosanct and would not dream of any adjustments.
Furthermore it is not illegal to stray outside your agreement for any reason whatsoever. It only becomes illegal if you have a private agreement that you do not share with opponents. For example a very good player local to me taught people never to open a weak no trump with 12 points when vulnerable but suggested that 15 points was acceptable. I explained to him that he should describe his vulnerable no trump as 13-15 or possibly 13 to a bad 15 but he would not hear of it.
So applying judgement is acceptable and straying is acceptable so long as you do not actually alter the basic agreement and not tell anyone.
It is always difficult in casual bridge if opponents just fail to follow basic rules. Of course they should never discuss system during a hand and you certainly did nothing wrong. In a duplicate you should just call the director.
Probably a, but since they are both clear minimum opening bids I am not sure why it matters. Over the years there have been people who do not like three ace hands (“Only three tricks, Partner!“) but this is incorrect valuation. Aces combine really well with cards opposite so hands with three aces are a good 12 points.
The original post referred to Stayman not Puppet Stayman. When playing live or on BCL or in some cases on RealBridge partner announces it as Stayman without any reference as to whether it is promissory or not. On BBO and similar the person making the bid announces it as Stayman without any reference as to whether it is promissory or not.
Puppet Stayman and other forms of Stayman are alertable and on BBO and similar are explained. Otherwise it is left to opponents to ask.
