David Stevenson
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Interesting. My guess is that few pairs know what 3S means in this position. If it is natural then West seems to have a good hand for the bid. Actually I might even bid 4S. The only reason it is such a poor contract is that partner does not have his double.
It could just be that someone has read about Montreal Relay but got it wrong. I am not suggesting that anyone should play the Montreal Relay but for your interest:
1C – 1D denies a five card major and is forcing
1C – 1H/S shows five cards, forcing
Apparently this convention has a fair following in Montreal and a few other places in North America.
It is not natural. Natural means it shows diamonds. It is certainly alertable.
While this forum is not one for how to bid this does not seem a very sensible method since it appears to miss 4S when it is best!Another traditional example (though not everyone plays it this way) is
1S-2S-
2NT-3C
2NT Is a game try, typically around 18 points and balanced. 3C is a signoff suggesting 5 or 6 points, only 3 spades and 6 clubs.
A simple alternative to the above method to keep 3S for some other use is to play Muppet Stayman instead of Puppet Stayman. This swaps the meanings of 3H and 3NT. Thus:
2NT – 3C –
3D = no 5 card major but a four card major
3H = no 4 or 5 card major
3S = 5 spades
3NT = 5 hearts
Then the sequence 2NT – 3C – 3H – 3S shows 5 spades and four hearts.
It is certainly legal and acceptable to use a 4C opening as Gerber. All slam tries are legal. There are some pairs who use 4C as Gerber always whatever the auction. Of course it should have been alerted and explained as with all artificial bids on the first round.
This is another example of the fact that whatever you have learnt on how to bid through initial lessons and experience and reading there will always be people who bid differently from you. There are restrictions on what you are allowed to play but despite this there are a very wide variety of things that are allowed.
xxxxxxxxNote: I did reply a few days ago but for some reason my reply seems to have gone astray.
That is all very well, Bruce, but this forum is about the legalities. Whether a weak two should be five is a matter for Ask Julian or the General Discussion forum.
It is correct to announce ‘weak’ playing live bridge or in similar events like RealBridge using partner alerting. I shall discuss this with Bernard but six cards is not the norm generally in English bridge games. It is true that a majority play six cards but the minority who do not is pretty large. If you need to know, ask.
On BBO, RealBridge using self alerting and so forth, it is easier to put in a longer description and I expect some people who play it as 5+ will say so but you cannot assume anything from players who do not. It is just like opening at the three level with six cards: it is quite common though not what is originally taught.
There will always be a problem with people who play in a controlled environment, such as games set up by Bernard for people who have learnt from him, when they go and play somewhere else and find a lot of differences even in basic bridge. For example, you may think you know the range for a 1NT rebid but I have known people who play 15-16, 15-17, 15-18, 11-14, 11-13, 12-14, 12-16, 13-17 and 12-17! If you need to know details of opponents’ bidding you have to ask, not to assume.While Julian will no doubt answer the question you intend I should point out the danger of using names. You refer to the Milton Point Count. Milton Work devised a very simple scheme, A=4, K=3, Q=2, J=1 and nothing else. It was a great step forward in the 1930s when everyone used Culbertson honour tricks. Certainly many people have devised methods of adding or subtracting to this since.
Yes, in fact for many players five cards is normal. Whatever you learn you have to remember that other people play it differently. Whether it is sensible in any particular situation is more a question to ask Julian.
I am dubious about it being not supported in the alert box. If you look at https://tinyurl.com/yhluu9o9 you will see the explanation of 2H includes the H symbol and I typed that in as !h.
One of the problems with weaker players is that some of them think points are everything. Perhaps he has learnt that a weak two shows at least six spades and 6-10 points. Of course this hand is nothing like a weak two but that is judgement. When weaker players make bad bids they lose a lot of the time, but occasionally they gain from them.
It is permissible to ask for an Undo after the next player has called, and often opponents will allow it even after partner has called. Unfortunately some players are a bit naughty over asking for Undos when they have changed their mind but it is normal to just accept any Undo request.
On RealBridge or BBO there is a tendency for less experienced players to play fewer conventions especially unusual ones and they are more likely to play Acol, especially Acol with a weak NT. But it is only a guide and there is no guarantee.
On BBO players are asked for their self assessment such as Beginner Intermediate Advanced and so on. Some people hide it by putting Private, some people think it funny to tell lies, eg saying a beginner from Togo. But in general you can rely on anyone who puts intermediate to be normal club standard.
